tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post901009970091393440..comments2023-10-26T02:08:37.015-06:00Comments on Every Day I Write the Book: Don't Leave the Churchkacy faulconerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09690060274994621199noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-79451894055321949842014-04-22T11:28:25.911-06:002014-04-22T11:28:25.911-06:00Hi, Other Stephanie, this is Stephanie Cozzens aga...Hi, Other Stephanie, this is Stephanie Cozzens again. I admit my comment did not come from an entirely charitable place, but it is truly irritating when so many former church members assume that my decision to stay in the church comes from ignorance. Anonymous seemed to me to be making this assumption, and my take on his/her comments was that Anonymous felt rather strongly about it, hence the "twisted knickers" assumption on my part. I realize that someone could have the same opinion in a kinder, less confrontational way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-35258466767845671012014-04-17T13:52:13.344-06:002014-04-17T13:52:13.344-06:00I came back to this post after a few weeks because...I came back to this post after a few weeks because I keep thinking about it. I even thought for a minute that maybe I had commented here already as well as on FB because the comment by anonymous sounds a whole lot like me. In the end, her observation that the gospel might not work for her but can be great for you is what I wish otherwise thoughtful and nuanced believers would start to accept. It's do strange to me that people who can see multiple perspectives and nuance with some things always have a one size fits all answer when it comes to Mormons: don't leave the church. It makes it hard to maintain true relationships with my believing friends because as good and kind as they are, I know they don't believe me when I say I prayed about going inactive, and I still feel a very strong connection with God and I know I'm doing what's best for me. But posts like this reminds me that I have very dear friends who don't believe that, and instead just assume they know what the problem is and the solution is as easy as "don't leave the church." Instead of helping saying things like this just hurts, and as much as I know you I know you wouldn't ever do that, even to an internet stranger. I can accept that the church works for many people. I can accept that some people might gave the same concerns I did and decide to stay active. I wish people would do the same for me and anonymous, instead of assuming our knickers are in a wad. I think me and anonymous want the same thing everyone else does, for our testimonies and beliefs to be validated and accepted. Stephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02231178030238211520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-16092645536001733692014-04-03T04:18:27.308-06:002014-04-03T04:18:27.308-06:00I love your blog, I loved this entry and I love yo...I love your blog, I loved this entry and I love your anonymous commenter. <br /><br />That's a lot of love, folks. Miriam Hermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14327244409212416119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-63078598964873218022014-04-02T09:28:23.006-06:002014-04-02T09:28:23.006-06:00I loved this.
And I hope "Anonymous" ha...I loved this.<br /><br />And I hope "Anonymous" has worked some of the twists out of his/her knickers. And I would like to heave a heavy *sigh* and point out that a person can be fully aware of some of the crazier aspects of church history and still be a believer. A fully aware, educated, faithful believer.Stephanie Cozzenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08922544007133756001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-57220384927636263732014-03-28T10:18:43.536-06:002014-03-28T10:18:43.536-06:00I also stopped attending as a direct result of ful...I also stopped attending as a direct result of fully immersing myself in all of the big and little things within the church. My heart was in the right place (no small thing) and the answers I got set me on a path that I did not expect or even want. But it was right. I attended for years after my deconversion, simply because I didn't have a clear idea of what to do next, and because I wanted to make sure I wasn't making any rash decisions or doing things for the wrong reasons. I cherish many of my memories, and many of the lessons learned as an active member of the church. And I have had to start over in the areas where the teachings and/or culture did more harm than good. In all things I am still learning. All the best to you. Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-26554068650541050452014-03-28T10:13:14.613-06:002014-03-28T10:13:14.613-06:00I liked this article, and I like you. I also appre...I liked this article, and I like you. I also appreciate the guidance and sense of peace so many people get from living the gospel. But as an ex-member (who still considers herself a cultural Mormon!), I get really tired of the attitude Mormons have that this is the very best way to live their lives or that there is one definitive answer to life's dilemmas (spoiler: it's always the gospel.) I know you said you wouldn't try to convert the pope, but you also said a lot of other things that were so definitive, things like saying you think it's the "best defense" against an evil world. It's subtle, and maybe I'm too sensitive to this after years of "one true church" dogma, but I think it's an attitude that permeates everything the members of the church do and it's demeaning to people who live good, decent lives outside of Mormonism. I didn't find peace in the church. I felt sad that I was oppressing people who were born with same sex attraction. I felt mocked for being a democrat. I felt disturbed at the rhetoric around women's roles and the lack of minorities in top leadership. I felt derision for waiting to have kids. I can see that your life fits great with the gospel, and I can appreciate how meaningful it is in your life. But it's just one way to find peace, joy and a defense against an evil world. It's just one way to raise moral and caring kids. I guess I wish Mormons would say this is the best way of life FOR THEM more often and include the possibility in their world view that other religions are just as valid and meaningful and spiritual and "the best" for other people. I attend another church now that is a better fit for me and I am happy. I'm glad for those Mormons who are happy too. But I'm glad I didn't stay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-2612298414150364982014-03-28T08:45:24.135-06:002014-03-28T08:45:24.135-06:00"He is asking people to live the gospel becau..."He is asking people to live the gospel because it makes them happier and because he believes it's true. He believes the best defense against the evil of the world is knowing the joy of the gospel. I believe this too."<br /><br />I loved this. I am also sympathetic to the pain and betrayal that some people feel as they learn the history of the Church. As is evident by the recent articles on lds.org, the history of the Church doesn't always mesh with the history we learned as kids. And when it comes to pity, there is plenty of it coming my way from people like the commenter above who writes "Poor deluded person." I would never begrudge someone their pity. I don't feel like I need it and I am sure those who feel pitied by members of the LDS Church don't feel in need of pity either. But pity, even misguided pity, generally comes from a desire to want the best for someone else and I think that's OK. So I don't need or want your pity, but I will accept it because I think you mean well. <br /><br />But here is why nothing you show me will shake my faith. First, I've seen and read it all and second (and more importantly) living the gospel as it is taught by the LDS Church makes me happy and any historic event you point to can't change that. I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, in fact, I know that he wasn't but the truth is that whether or not he was is largely irrelevant to how I lead my life. <br /><br />The Gospel helps me focus more on other people. It's not the only way to do that, but I believe it is the best way. That makes me a happier person and I am grateful for it every day. If you have found another way, I am happy for you but I think the church would be a better place if you were still engaged in it. <br /><br />Christian Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13572926578322777883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-29171859084291424542014-03-27T23:36:04.658-06:002014-03-27T23:36:04.658-06:00Don't leave the church. Because everyone you k...Don't leave the church. Because everyone you know, from family to lifelong friends; they'll pity you. They'll think to themselves, and frequently say out loud, "Oh, he could have been so great...", "... could have been an amazing person..." "... could have been such a great leader..." could have been. COULD HAVE been. But won't. Because now he or she doesn't agree with me. <br />Tell me this doesn't happen. Not just occasionally, but to everyone who decides to leave. Seriously. Ask yourself objectively. It never fails. It's not just some people; it's a majority of both church leaders, and average the average churchgoers. <br />Tell me the people in a church aren't the church. That the church is the church. <br />But any organization is made up of those in it. The crusades based their wars on Christianity, but few Christians would argue that's an oxymoron. You can't base a war on Christ's teachings. It happened anyway. Did it matter that the church (Christianity) was all lovey when they were raping towns and slaughtering children? Only to the Christians. To those unarmed thousands being slaughtered because they believed differently, it was quite a meaningless sentiment. They were still dead. They were still raped, and tortured. They still watched their towns burn, their families die, and their life crumble. <br />And when you leave the church, and the people in the church make your life hell by scourging you, and you hear them say "the people in the church aren't the church", it's probably the most empty statement imaginable, and no less false than it is when applied to the crusades. Your life is still in shambles, your family and friends still pity you, and you're damned to be guilt tripped for the rest of your life for thinking differently than them. <br />The church already uses fear mongering enough to keep its members around. This article, and others like it, only compound that. I'm sure your motives are pure. The outcome isn't. Utilitarianism is sometimes the only logical way to make decisions. <br />Disagree if you like; I promise I won't pity you and look down upon you for it. Can you say the same? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-82432568907620220202014-03-27T22:21:46.636-06:002014-03-27T22:21:46.636-06:00Loved this!Loved this!Valerie Ipsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15958210886138097232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-9963531444196608792014-03-27T13:44:47.761-06:002014-03-27T13:44:47.761-06:00I completely agree. If you don't go to church-...I completely agree. If you don't go to church- there won't be people like you at church.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06930741054943839702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-16470303449957636682014-03-27T12:17:42.705-06:002014-03-27T12:17:42.705-06:00Kacy, I thought this was great. I'm glad you s...Kacy, I thought this was great. I'm glad you share parts of your soul here. heidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08707758649121464234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-22888114594290436042014-03-27T11:35:55.897-06:002014-03-27T11:35:55.897-06:00Brilliant, whole heartedly agree went through the ...Brilliant, whole heartedly agree went through the same process. The everlasting gospel is rapidly becoming the ever changing gospel.To believe Mormonism is to take leave of one's senses and to suspend credulity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-77126502581639749572014-03-27T08:54:44.754-06:002014-03-27T08:54:44.754-06:00loved this! thank you!loved this! thank you!Marianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152257576895279725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-51967550882008811442014-03-27T07:33:41.022-06:002014-03-27T07:33:41.022-06:00I remember a youth conference when my stake presid...I remember a youth conference when my stake president, G. Homer Durhan (later to become a general authority) related how we were to listen to our leaders, and talked about how the Spirit would manifest the truth of what they said. He related how Paul H. Dunn of the First Quorum of the Seventies had such an impact on the youth and how the Spirit was so strong.<br /><br />So how does this work? Does the Spirit confirm the truth of made up stories? Or is that we call "the Spirit" simply an emotion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-65226646595810810112014-03-27T02:14:02.675-06:002014-03-27T02:14:02.675-06:00Read my posting. Which mistakes do I ignore, and w...Read my posting. Which mistakes do I ignore, and which do I believe? Should I pray about it? So what if Joseph Smith used his own stone to translate the Book of Mormon rather than the Urim and Thummim. So what if he married women that were still married to other men. It will all be worked out in the eternities, right?<br /><br />Should I discount the talks that Brigham Young gave in General Conference then, or listen to them? According to him, we can not enter the Celestial Kingdom without practicing polygamy. Now though, our prophets tell us that is incorrect doctrine. They also tell us that Brigham's bigotry should be overlooked when considering the blacks and the priesthood issue. Men make mistakes. Oh wait, he was the prophet. That's ok. Just ignore doctrine of yesterday and consider only the newest revisions.<br /><br />I don't see anyone changing the parables around to make them more appealing to today's crowds.<br /><br />You say the bishop is fallible. How about Joseph and Brigham? Take time to read http://cesletter.com<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-43216389497787166822014-03-27T01:58:27.525-06:002014-03-27T01:58:27.525-06:00I am sure members of the FLDS faith are thinking t...I am sure members of the FLDS faith are thinking the same thing right now while Warren Jeffs is imprisoned for the rest of his mortal life. Stay in the boat. Don't question anything. We got in the boat for a reason, and no matter what, the boat is the place to be.<br /><br />I could not disagree more. I want to know the details of the boat. http://cesletter.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-11441734051486496082014-03-27T01:54:27.396-06:002014-03-27T01:54:27.396-06:00Keep to the basics? Joseph Smith translated the Bo...Keep to the basics? Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon using the Urim and Thummim, right? Well, if you want to stick with this "basic", then you need to think again. Go to lds.org and read up the new article (search for translation of the Book of Mormon). The "basic" information is changing and aligns more with anti-Mormon literature than you would probably like. Take it from someone who didn't want to find this information on a church website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-46973556469672423952014-03-27T01:47:58.182-06:002014-03-27T01:47:58.182-06:00I left the church recently. Ignoring the documente...I left the church recently. Ignoring the documented history and being ignorant by design was what I did for over 30 years. When I read some of the works published on lds.org recently regarding blacks and the priesthood and the translation of the Book of Mormon, I was astounded. All of the "anti-Mormon" literature I had heard about in years passed was true.<br /><br />I told my bishop of my concerns. He was called to his position, didn't ask for this responsibility, etc. I get that. But all he could say was, "men are not perfect." He followed up with an email asking me to read some conference talks.<br /><br />Here is my question. Which conference talks do I throw out as blasphemy, and which do I add to my gospel library? Apparently some of the talks from years passed are not good anymore, and we should disregard them. New gospel is o.k., but old gospel, unless it lines up with stuff from the last few years, should be avoided because it could cause confusion.<br /><br />My other concern is why I didn't know that Joseph Smith used a rock he found while digging a well for a neighbor to translate the Book of Mormon, not the Urim and Thummim. If you don't believe me, look at the church article posted on lds.org. Do a search for the translation of the Book of Mormon. I can't get past this. All of the artwork, all of the primary lessons, everything. Bogus. Why tell me now? According to Elder Snow, it is because of the internet and the need to be more transparent. Too bad no one saw this coming. Information at my fingertips = doubt and proof that the whole thing is a hoax.<br /><br />This has been the most depressing month of my life. Of course you believers will think it is because of the small stuff I left behind. When in fact it is due to the fact I have been stupid enough to believe without question. Happiness? I don't agree. It is ignorance, and ignorance is bliss. Anyone uninterested in feeling like me should avoid the red pill. Don't go down the rabbit hole. If you are like me though, and need objective information, take the red pill and prepare for a bumpy ride. Read http://cesletter.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-75334974697392120202014-03-26T21:32:06.628-06:002014-03-26T21:32:06.628-06:00That is hard. You're not alone. Hang in there....That is hard. You're not alone. Hang in there. kacy faulconerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09690060274994621199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-539927225693197192014-03-26T20:57:12.674-06:002014-03-26T20:57:12.674-06:00Christ's gospel is supposed to be polarizing i...Christ's gospel is supposed to be polarizing in the sense that causes you to make hard decisions. Word of Wisdom, dress code, chastity, Sabbath Day, a life of dedication. You can't really coast and be a truly effective Mormon. It's a demanding faith, which curiously appeals to a lot of people. It stretches them. It's a workout program that requires a great deal of sacrifice. And the rewards follow in kind with the level of sacrifice.<br /><br />People also shouldn't be surprised that church members and church leaders have faults and make mistakes. Throughout history, God has allowed people to mess things up and eventually work them out. A big part of the Joseph Smith story is that he messed up from time to time, that he's human just like we are. What people forget is that we need to have faith in the gospel, not in the administration of it. We are even instructed to place our faith only in Christ, because human beings are going to leave us disappointed. If we think the bishop represents the ward, then we need to take a step back. The bishop is merely the fallible, error-prone, human representation of the ward. He'll be the first to tell you it's not his church, but Christ's.Rusty Southwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01172240053916509524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-41482326808146184242014-03-26T19:52:31.468-06:002014-03-26T19:52:31.468-06:00Don't leave the church. It's good for you ...Don't leave the church. It's good for you and you're good for it. There are lots of issues, guys. I know. None are insurmountable. You can handle it. <br /><br /> I really, really needed to hear this. My husband of nearly 18 years has recently decided the church is not for him. We've been through financial hardships, lost everything, had some very serious marital issues and nothing has shaken me like his decision. Even though I have a lot of things to work out in regards to my personal salvation and testimony, his rejection of the church has cut me deeply and further damaged my faith. Lately it's been easier, less guilt-inducing, and less heartbreaking to stay home. I don't want to leave, i'm just not ready to go full force alone, to repent for my own transgressions when it only means I will still have to stand alone. But I won't leave the church. Even though it's hard, even though I don't agree with everything. Thank you.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-85925081693586228812014-03-26T19:08:34.305-06:002014-03-26T19:08:34.305-06:00If this was a post for Babble, the totally would h...If this was a post for Babble, the totally would have changed the title to "Why I Think the Pope Should Become Mormon."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12286940423496605473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-41108527343724234822014-03-26T18:53:52.043-06:002014-03-26T18:53:52.043-06:00Elder Holland came to our stake conference a few y...Elder Holland came to our stake conference a few years ago and gave a similar talk. He likened being part of the church to being in a boat on the ocean. We are each in a different part of the boat; we are each given different responsibilities. He said emphatically and repeatedly, "Stay in the boat! Stay in the boat!" I don't always remember stake conference talks, but his was good and it really stuck. Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783020041522106270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-41884199673081884102014-03-26T16:54:37.028-06:002014-03-26T16:54:37.028-06:00Mormons have been taught that it is a one size fit...Mormons have been taught that it is a one size fits all religion. Mormonism is for everyone. I spent over four decades as a Mormon trying to make myself fit in the church. I tried to fit socially. I tried to adjust my personal beliefs to accommodate its shadier parts of history. I tried to accept certain aspects of Mormon doctrine and policy that I just didn't agree with. I spent four decades trying to adjust myself to fit in the Mormon mold because I was told that "it was good for me." I was unsuccessful. I wasn't being healed and uplifted living in the LDS church. I was miserable. I was living an inauthentic life and felt depressed and spiritually starved.<br /><br />Many LDS members have a difficult time believing that Mormonism does not make everyone happy. If it makes you happy, great. I'm glad you found your niche. But, please stop insisting that the LDS church is the only path to happiness.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597252.post-74979125152597616802014-03-26T16:31:30.315-06:002014-03-26T16:31:30.315-06:00I have been in Primary for 5 years now (introvert ...I have been in Primary for 5 years now (introvert turned Primary music leader--never knew this calling would be such a good match for me! I adore it!) so I feel a little insulated from "regular" church. I started attending institute once a week and sometimes it reminds me of what I'm missing out on in Sunday School, for better or worse (there's definitely both). I want to be that other voice sometimes in there when someone makes a "cartoony" comment that makes me go "wait--what??" I want to comment in response, but don't want to be confrontational, draw attention to myself, or otherwise create awkwardness in that space, which is overwhelmingly filled with women who have 10 or 20 or 50 more years of experience than I do. <br /><br />My only solution is to just go for it one of these days. That, and actually read the lesson ahead of time so that I know what I might want to say in a moment like that--preferably backing myself up with someone with more authority than me, like Nephi or King Benjamin or someone.<br /><br />Anyway there's my thought on being the other voice. I find that my voice is comparatively strong in Primary. I feel confident expressing myself to the little ones, especially in response to their wide-eyed and sincere questions, maybe because I'm not afraid that they'll judge me or be offended or maybe even bring my name up at the next ward council. ;)<br /><br />Thanks for your uplifting thoughts. The gospel is so wonderful and I love to read pieces like this that express how I feel so much better than I can.Elizahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13943126446575413050noreply@blogger.com